Marker Percentage 'Current utilisation' Values differ between markers that contain identical pieces

I have x2 markers, one of them is LH and the other is a RH. The pieces were created from one of the hands and the opposite hand pieces were created in PDS by Flipping and Save as. Therefore identical pieces, just mirrored.

I create my markers, both markers are identical in length (2.6796cm) yet I have one marker with a CU value of 71.87% and the other 84.73%.

Both markers have same amount of pieces, both have the same Block buffer value. There are Internal Label H holes in the pieces, but as I mentioned above they were created from one hand to produce the other hand.


Comments

  • Kathy ValadeKathy Valade Gerber Staff 💛
    Length is the same but I notice both markers are not placed exactly the same. Look in upper right corner red bundle piece...Use Copy Marker for marker 2 and then compare.

  • yes this is correct, they are not place entirely the same, the pieces have their own individual names so cannot copy markers. They are the same amount of pieces, same lengths have the same BB. Therefore the space they take up in the marker length x width should give the same percentage??

  • Kathy ValadeKathy Valade Gerber Staff 💛
    If they are not the same exact pieces/names, there may be a slight difference because it is not an exact comparison - they were flipped and mirrored. Were original pieces mirrored or saved open? 
  • as I mentioned above, the pieces were created from one of the hands and the opposite hand pieces were created in PDS by Flipping and Save as. Therefore identical pieces, just mirrored.
  • Kathy ValadeKathy Valade Gerber Staff 💛
    Is it from the same order? Please attach the data with components or open up a call and email the data to [email protected] so we can take a look.
  • pieces, markers orders attached.

    This is not the first me I have seen this issue.

  • Kathy ValadeKathy Valade Gerber Staff 💛
    Thanks for sharing the data. I took a quick look in marker report and PDS. There is an extra internal reported so the markers are different. I think it is your line segments and seam internals that are different which accounts for the line difference. See attached images. 
  • @kathy Valade

    I have again took all of the pieces from the RH marker and flipped them over, realigned grain and called them by the their LH names to double check the mirror pieces are identical. I then reprocessed the marker and I get the same result. As for the pieces you have shown above, they are not in the markers I have issues with.

    I've ran some reports; piece reports in the markers contain the same data, however I do notice Net Utilisation identical but not the % Utilisation and Waste. Curved internals and total internals are different values in the report same as you mentioned in your initial response

    So if the pieces were created from each other, why would the internals data be so different and I have such a big difference in % of nearly 13% in the marker surface area, this is quite a big difference and effects costings and gives me all sorts of issues?

    I've also ran a Single piece report and I notice some marginally differences on x2 of the pieces.

    LH IAC900386_E     0SQ M2668.80 RH IAC900387_E     0SQ M2668.80 LH IAC900315_G    0SQ M0103.69 RH IAC900322_G     0SQ M0103.69 LH IAC900317_E     0SQ M0659.52 RH IAC900324_E     0SQ M0659.52 LH IAC900319_G     0SQ M0096.30 RH IAC900325_G     0SQ M0096.30

    I must have separate LH and RH pieces as they will then have their own part numbers. Setting flips in models I cannot do as an alternative solution.


  • @Beverley You both pieces have different Place area, which means they are not identical. That's why the are showing different Utilization... 


  • @MuhammadOwais thank you.

    I understand that the in Markers reports or wherever you look there are different values and that's the reason why I question it.

    However I created the piece, then 'SAVED' it. I then flipped the piece over and 'SAVED AS' with a new name to create x2 pieces but both being generated from the same original file - just a flip / mirror. I now the pieces with different values and I want to understand why.

    I have seen this issue before on a few occasions but 90% of my markers for LH and RH are identical in value and I don't have issues with, just not for this sample I provide.

    I need a solution as the percentage difference is too large for me to ignore. I must have separate pieces as they need to have separate part numbers.

  • @Beverley
    Yeah Its a strange issue. Let me look it deeply and will get back to you soon...
  • Kathy ValadeKathy Valade Gerber Staff 💛
    @Beverley

    If they are identical, then it would be a copy of the original and no changes.
    You have flipped it over to make the opposite of it (what you refer to as mirror).
    And also realigned grain and pieces have seam internals which may not match the perimeter line segments. Also, did you change your Seam Properties between the original piece and the flipped piece when that one was saved? Something is different between the two pieces because the placed perimeter of the piece above is different in marker.  

    If the pieces are not in the marker provided, please isolate down to the two pieces, build a marker with only these two pieces to see if you can determine what in the piece is changing. 

    If this is a continuous problem, please submit a Problem and Enhancement Report and attach the isolated data so Product Management can look at it more closely.
    This should be the marker with components so it includes the models and exact pieces ordered in marker.  Thanks.
  • @Beverley
    There is a difference in the measurements in your both LH piece and RH piece when we remove seam margins in both pieces which is the main reason for the difference of the Utilization in your LH and RH marker, check your piece without Seam allowance once again.

  • @mir_Adnan thankyou I will do, this will help with getting the % the same on the markers but I will require to make 2 sets of patterns and remove the seams and 2 sets of markers just to get the LH and the RH markers the same % for costings.

    However this still doesn't explain why there is a difference on this particular piece when every single piece I ever create, I always 'flip', 'realign grain' and 'save as' to create the opposite hand. If it is a seam margin issue then why do I not see it on all my other pieces, I have thousands of pieces?

    I would fully understand if they were separately created from digitising but they are not, the LH and RH pieces are created from each other.

    As mentioned before, creating LH and RH in model is not an option as I need all my pieces to have their own part number. I could try this to see what % result I get in the markers but its not a long term option.

  • @Beverley will get back you soon after digging out the main reason behind this error

  • Kathy ValadeKathy Valade Gerber Staff 💛
    If your Seam Properties changed between the original piece and the opposite piece you create, the generate seam updates could impact the values. It all depends on the line segments and if there is slight difference between original and opposite piece you create.
  • @Karthy Valade

    Thank you, I understand what you are saying.

    What is making the seam Properties to change?

    However when I flip the pieces I never change anything on the seam properties there after, just a simple 'Realign Grain' and 'Save as'. I have repeatedly created pieces in this way for decades and 95% of my pieces have seams. It is on this occasion I notice a difference of 13% between marker utilisation when the markers have the same lengths. 



  • This morning I have just process some markers for another projects and I see the same issue. This time the pieces don't contain any seams.

    Is this related to Version 12 ? as Ive not seen this issue before and being doing this process for years?

  • Kathy ValadeKathy Valade Gerber Staff 💛
    Beverley, Now that we have eliminated seam internal lines as a potential difference, this is odd. Which version were you using prior to the upgrade to V12 and is this V12.0 or V12.1? Submitting a PERU from your system would be very helpful to continue investigating. Please attach this data to your report and let me know when you have submitted it. Thank you.
  • @Kathy, I am on Version 12.0.0288

    Remind me what a PERU is and how do I do it?


  • Kathy ValadeKathy Valade Gerber Staff 💛
    edited September 9
    @Beverley, The icon is on your desktop. You need to set up your mail system in the Properties to send it in. 
  • @Kathy I have had a few problems with this and now it has been reinstalled.

    How do you set up the email ? 

  • @Kathy, I have bypassed setting up the email for now and followed the instruction to send the data manually to [email protected]
  • Kathy ValadeKathy Valade Gerber Staff 💛
    I am trying to locate it. If the report was successfully submitted, you would receive a Thank You-Confirmation reply. Did you email to ProblemReport or Problem.Report?
  • I emailed to the address above as this what the instruction was

    [email protected]

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